2011 年 10 18, Lu Shaye Africa Division to accept the French “Youth in Africa” ??correspondent Jean-Louis Gouraud interview. (Source: Ministry of Foreign Affairs website)
BEIJING, Oct. 22 (Xinhua) news sites, according to Ministry of Foreign Affairs, October 18, Africa Division, Ministry of Foreign Affairs Lu Shaye accept the French “Young Africa” correspondent Jean-Louis Gouraud interview, talked about China’s policies.
interview reads as follows:
Reporter: There are several African countries which have not established diplomatic relations with China?
Lu: If you just count the founding of the Southern Sudan, now a total of 54 countries in Africa, China not only with the four countries to establish diplomatic relations. The four countries: Swaziland, Burkina Faso, Gambia, Sao Tome and Principe. Swaziland, which is never established diplomatic relations with China, the other three countries broke off diplomatic relations after the establishment of diplomatic relations.
Reporter: 50 China to establish diplomatic relations with African countries is built Embassy in China?
Lo: Yes, these countries have established embassies in China.
Reporter: whether the newly established China established diplomatic relations with South Sudan?
Lu: Yes, an independent South Sudan, we have established diplomatic relations with.
Reporter: Does China have recognized the Transitional Council of Libya?
Lo: Yes, we have recognized.
Reporter: Has the transition committee ambassador to China? Has China sent ambassadors Benghazi or Tripoli?
Lu: Our embassy in Tripoli, there has been the war’s most intense, part of the temporary withdrawal of the Tripoli embassy staff for some time, now they have been coming back to the embassy. Former Libyan embassy has now become representatives of the Libyan National Transition Council.
Reporter: Since when China is to accept this change? Because when I heard that this part of China has been Libya’s internal affairs, and China’s position is the position with reference to the African Union, and China is in southern Sudan and Libya, both with reference to the African Union position on this?
Lu: China according to their assessment of the situation to take a stand. We always believed that the future of Libya, the Libyan people themselves should decide, according to Libya’s development of the situation we have, in time to recognize the decision of the Libyan National Transition Council. For the recognition of South Sudan is more natural things, both north and south Sudan under the sign of the “Comprehensive Peace Agreement,” a national referendum, broke through peaceful means. In Libya, we support the position of the African Union and African Union mediation efforts.
Reporter: You mentioned the National Transitional Council in recognition of Libya’s choice on the issue of “timely” word, what does China when it is considered “timely”?
Lu: When the Libyan National Transition Council has in fact become the ruling authorities, when Libya.
Correspondent: In the UN Security Council on Libya air strikes on the draft resolution to vote, China’s position is not very clear, China has neither opposed nor vote, said the Chinese side excessive use of force against international organizations, why China did not adopt a more clear position?
Lu: China has been not in favor of the resolution is worried about the abuse, but the wording of the resolution does contain such a possibility. The reason why there is no objection, because the draft resolution has been widely Arab League and Arab countries to support their point of departure is the hope that through the United Nations intervention, early end to the war in Libya. But no matter what China’s position, all indicate that China is opposed to external interference, especially military intervention in the internal affairs.
Reporter: occurs when the war in Libya, China carried out many projects in Libya, the withdrawal was a lot of overseas Chinese, I now ask whether these projects have been re-launched? Whether these workers have returned to the withdrawal of the site? Now this whole situation is like?
Lu: before the war in Libya, China is indeed a lot of projects in Libya. After the outbreak of war, the Chinese government organized the evacuation in the first action, within ten days of the withdrawal of more than 30,000. Libya has not been restored because of the current situation, as far as I know Chinese officials have not returned to Libya.
correspondent: the principle of non-interference in internal affairs is the focus of China’s foreign policy, China has refused to establish diplomatic relations with the four African countries is not cultural, educational, or economic and trade exchanges, exclusive development of relations with them. This is not also in fact the formation of interference in internal affairs of these countries?
Lu: China and the four countries do not have diplomatic relations, so there is no official communication, but the Chinese government did not stop bilateral non-governmental exchanges. As far as I know, some Chinese enterprises to carry out business in these countries. Moreover, on this issue, not China interfered in the internal affairs of these countries, but these countries to interfere in China’s internal affairs, because they are a province of China with the establishment of the so-called “diplomatic relations.”
Reporter: Recently, five or six years, China’s relations with some African countries they have become an important topic in the election, for example, in Zambia there is such a problem. The newly elected Zambian President during the campaign had made some remarks threaten China, the Chinese threatened to withdraw from Zambia this, do not know whether the description of this phenomenon in some African countries, Chinese interference in internal affairs?
Lu: I have seen the reports of Western media, Western media reported only the last part, but did not report antecedent, just reported that China threatened to withdraw from Zambia, but no reports Why does China say. Zambia’s presidential election in 2006, the then presidential candidate, is elected president this year’s elections claimed that if elected in the election with Taiwan should the so-called “diplomatic relations.” China under the one-China principle, that if Zambia and Taiwan “diplomatic relations”, China severed diplomatic relations with Zambia only. The Taiwan issue is China’s internal affairs, China on this issue is not interfering in internal affairs, but other countries to interfere in China’s internal affairs. The development of relations between China and African countries, has always maintained sincere friendship, equality, mutual non-interference in internal affairs, which never threatened African countries. Sata has been elected president of Zambia this year, after expressing to continue developing relations with China’s wishes, the Chinese side appreciates this.
Correspondent: I think the principle of non-interference in internal affairs does not mean that human rights and abuse of power, China pursues the principle is also some indication that China is Africa’s complicity in some bad behavior ? Whether the principle of non-interference in internal affairs will result in some negative consequences, in what circumstances China will no longer adhere to this principle?
Lu: I think the principle of non-interference in internal affairs itself is good, it reflects the mutual respect between nations and equality. Because the world’s countries are sovereign states are equal, no one higher or lower. The real world does have a lot of unfair place, such as the power to bully small, strong bullying the weak, the rich bullying the poor. In this case, the principle of non-interference in internal affairs is small, weak and poor countries for self-protection barrier, big and strong, rich countries can talk about to give up the principle of non-interference in internal affairs, because they know that small, weak and poor countries unable to interference in their internal affairs. Big and strong, rich countries to interfere in the small and weak countries, the purpose of poor countries, need to break this barrier, it is the principle of non-interference in internal affairs with various charges. Western countries accuse China of China’s largest charge is to develop relations with authoritarian regimes in Africa, do not speak of democracy, human rights do not speak. But this year the situation in North Africa turbulence, the Western countries today, authoritarian regimes as the Mubarak regime in Egypt, Tunisia’s Ben Ali regime in the past three decades has been a staunch ally of the West. Gaddafi is not a friend of China, on the contrary he was a guest of many Western leaders, the relationship is good way to go.
Reporter: You said the exact truth, the West did not qualified to criticize China in a way passive support for authoritarian regimes in African countries, but I’m not because this attitude of Western countries raise the issue. We see African countries, some political factions as a parliamentary majority, want China to interfere in their affairs, to help them get rid of authoritarian regimes. While in some African countries also face such as autocratic, dictatorial, or poor management of resources and other issues. China has been their role model, they hope more Chinese intervention in their affairs, to help them develop.
Lu: African countries are in any case they do not want to interfere in China’s internal affairs, of course, would not want Western countries to interfere in their internal affairs. Some African countries, political parties want the West to help them overthrow the ruling party, which is a different story, This is for the school of political interests. Once this faction came to power, they will not want foreign interference in their internal affairs, including those who have supported them in power in Western countries. And having said that, North Africa countries in the past few decades, people do not put forward the demand for reform it? Western countries listen to it? Support it? Never. The name of the western countries under the banner of humanitarian and justice that they have to support people’s cries, had they?
China stands for the principle of non-interference in internal affairs reflects the concept of equality and mutual respect, and we are willing to constructively participate in regional affairs, including peace and security, Africa is willing to contribute to peace and security. Even in China were invited to intervene in Africa or the conflict between African countries, China is also insist on respect for national or regional organizations dominance. This constructive engagement, but also reflects the principle of non-interference in internal affairs.
Correspondent: Can say that China has changed a few decades ago under the leadership of Chairman Mao’s foreign policy implementation. At that time China has proposed a social model, that China is an example of social construction is very willing to share the experience out in China today is no longer considered itself a unique social model, is only willing to work with you to develop a non-political , the only business on the relationship?
Lu: not the case. Development of relations between China and African countries is comprehensive, including both political, economic and trade fields, but also cultural, social and other fields. Of course, the development of trade and economic relations are very important for China and Africa will benefit the two peoples, is conducive to both economic development and improving people’s livelihood. But as important as the development of political relations. Economic and trade relations between the two countries because it provides a good policy environment. If there is no political mutual trust between the two countries, I think it is impossible to develop good economic and trade relations. At the same time the development of cultural, social, cultural relations are very important because it is both the basis for human cooperation.
Correspondent: You can say that since the Bandung Conference in 1955, China’s foreign policy has undergone tremendous changes, play a more important role in the economy. China has made in 1964, the eight principles of foreign economic aid. Currently, only the development of China-Africa relations, but has undergone profound changes. China is not completely change the ideology has crossed the mind?
Lu: China’s diplomacy in the past half century has indeed undergone great changes. In the 1950s and 1960s, China does have a high passion, that our social model very well, other developing countries, Third World countries, much the same with us, you can learn from. Time for non-Chinese relations in the development of African countries to give national independence and liberation struggle a lot of support. These countries after independence, we also give them a lot of financial assistance, in accordance with our domestic development model to help them build national economic system. To be honest, when China itself has not figure out how it should develop, but the development of China-Africa relations have a high passion, that we should help them. After the reforms, China to the outside world have a more comprehensive understanding of the situation that China’s power is far from what they have thought so much, we must first put their own develop, own and develop the ability to help African countries have. So you can see the trajectory of China’s policy, the fifties and sixties and even seventies, mainly in Africa China unilateral economic assistance. We help Africa build up a lot of productive projects, such as sugar mills, textile mills, breweries, cigarette factories and other factories. We were the only consideration is the construction of productive projects in order to help African countries to solve the employment problem in order to help African countries to improve self-reliance. Premier Zhou Enlai visited Africa in 1964 during the eight principles of foreign economic assistance, he stressed, to help African countries to improve their self-reliance, self-development. In the 1980s, we propose not only to carry out aid to Africa, but also to carry out non-beneficial cooperation. With China’s rapid economic development, we are Africa’s market, growing demand for resources, investment in Africa has been greatly developed. Take away resources from Africa, we also provide feedback African countries, according to the economic development needs of African countries to help African countries to establish a large number of infrastructure projects. This is what they need, embodies the spirit of mutual benefit. Eight principles put forward by Premier Zhou Enlai in many of the principles are still useful, we are still the basic principles. I have just mentioned as soon as possible to help African countries to embark on self-reliance, self-development of roads, we often talk about equality and mutual benefit, mutual respect and without attaching any political conditions are laid down at that time. These principles are actually Chinese diplomacy a consistent principle, reflects the Chinese diplomatic philosophy.
past, how to get China to the socialist road is not very clear, that the world’s other developing countries should be like us. But today, even if China’s development well, the Chinese road, the Chinese model has been universally concerned, we do not believe that we are and the model can be universally applicable. We never sell to other countries, our development model, we do not think any other model can be universally applicable. We believe that each country must be according to their national conditions, adapt to the times to choose their own path of development. We are with African countries in managing state affairs of the exchange is very large, we believe that a good practice to tell our African countries, as they are taken not to adopt, how willing to do, it is their own thing. We never asked African countries to follow China’s model do this and that, which reflects the cooperation of our aid to Africa, the principle of no political strings attached.
Reporter: You just said I want to return to the principle of mutual benefit and win-win situation, because this is an important international development theory point of view. Chinese investment in Africa is relatively concentrated, mainly in some resource-rich countries or some areas. While in other countries as well as in social and cultural aspects, the less investment. This makes some countries are very dependent on relations with China. Some countries have even complained because a large number of imported Chinese goods, destroying the local industry. Therefore, we can see a variety of criticism of China. From a country perspective, China’s principle of mutual benefit is not the case in practice, for this problem do you think of?
Lu: Now for the negative evaluation of Sino-African relations is not from Africa but from the West. Because I have met many Africans, including government officials, scholars and ordinary people, they welcome China-Africa Cooperation, China-Africa cooperation is not welcome outsiders, Westerners. Africa also has a number of politicians, academics, the media also said China-Africa cooperation is not good, but we are very clear what their background is. China-Africa relations are not good because that Africans, in fact, a very close relationship with the West, because they have their political interests. Ordinary people will complain about the African imports from China too much, I think this is because they do not understand the whole picture of China-Africa cooperation, because the Western countries will not introduce China-Africa Cooperation comprehensive picture. Objectively speaking, China-Africa cooperation brings benefits to African countries much more than the problems caused, or the Western countries would not be so nervous. China-Africa cooperation is indeed there are some problems, but these problems are not unique to China-Africa cooperation in Africa in cooperation with other countries also exist. For example, Chinese investment in Africa focused on the resource-rich country, perhaps, but the West is not it? We should be realistic number. Resource-rich countries do more business cooperation, with investment opportunities. Capital is always profit-driven, where there is no profit, no return on investment where, I think the West will not go. Chinese enterprises to invest in all African countries, there must be a lot of, Western companies exponentially, foreign capital in China in Africa only a small part of most or Western capital.
China attaches importance to cooperation with resource-rich countries, while not forgotten, and ignored the poor have no resources of small countries, we are strengthened through official aid modalities of cooperation with them, through aid to support their policy preferences. In the 50 diplomatic relations with China, African countries, no country without China’s cooperation projects. For example, I once worked in Senegal, it is not resource-rich country. After the restoration of diplomatic relations in plug plug my work in three years, China has built a lot of its infrastructure. It built our National Theatre, which is Africa’s most beautiful National Theatre, we transform it to the capital city of Dakar, power grids, construction of the government’s e-government network, the maintenance of a large area of ??the ten stadiums, school the two groups of agricultural technology to help farmers grow rice and vegetables, we also sent a medical team. This is the resumption of diplomatic relations between the two countries within three years, the Chinese do things, not so much a done in Western countries, including France.
Correspondent: Well, in this respect you can give more cooperation between China and the example of a small country in Africa? Such as Mali, Togo, Central Africa and other countries, we can not blame the cooperation between China and these countries to obtain resources such as oil or bauxite. As far as I know China is the first to provide financial or monetary assistance to the Central African country, President Bozize came to power because the face is a near-bankrupt country, then France and the EU did not give him any financial assistance to help on him to pay civil servants, but said that China is doing so.
Lu: It seems you quite understand the situation in Central Africa, it would take Africa for example. So far I have not heard of Africa what resources, in addition to its forest on the ground, but China-Africa in recent years to build the stadium, built one of the largest hospital in Bangui, Central Africa in China also built a lot of benefits public projects. China has maintained diplomatic relations with 50 African countries have aided the project, you can tell any one of the poorest and most resource-poor countries, I can give you a list of a lot of China’s aid projects. For example, the Seychelles, we give it free reconstruction of the Parliament Building and the National Aquatic Centre.
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